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Dear coleagues and friends, I'm cteating this topic for us to practise our English. I feel that, as time goes by, my own English deteriorates because I really don't use it often enough. True, I write to friends, read newspapers online, watch films in English, but still it is not enough. Therefore I invite everyone who is interested to chat about anything of interest in this topic provided that the conversations are held in English. I hope that it will help us all to keep up our favourite language on a daily basis.

 

Speaking about languages, I've seen an interesting commentary today from an Englishman who speaks Russian. He complained that there are too many unnecessary borrowings in Russian from English and many of such borrowings look ugly, like Авто Бизнес Центр Групп. Its interesting to see how an Englishman  complains that the Russian language is not pure enough. Would you say that there are too many unnecessary borrowings from English in modern Russian? Just wondering.  

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Dear coleagues and friends, I'm cteating this topic for us to practise our English. I feel that, as time goes by, my own English deteriorates because I really don't use it often enough. True, I write to friends, read newspapers online, watch films in English, but still it is not enough. Therefore I invite everyone who is interested to chat about anything of interest in this topic provided that the conversations are held in English. I hope that it will help us all to keep up our favourite language on a daily basis.

 

Spaeking about languages, I've seen an interesting commentary today from an Englishman who speaks Russian. He complained that there are too many unnecessary borrowings in Russian from English and many of such borrowings look ugly, like Авто Бизнес Центр Групп. Its interesting to see how an Englishman  complains that the Russian language is not pure enough. Would you say that there are too many unnecessary borrowings from English in modern Russian? Just wondering.  

Good idea! (I mean practising our English)

As for borrowings, I think there are too many of them. Now I'm a little bit busy making apricot jam so I'll  come back to this topic later.  :D

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I think that borrowing new words from other languages is a normal process. It happens when there is something new in life but there is no words to name this new thing. In such cases a new word is coined or borrowed. The English language has borrowed some words from the Russian language, too. Blinis, pirozhki, bitnik, sputnik, apparatchik, troika.

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I think that borrowing new words from other languages is a normal process. It happens when there is something new in life but there is no words to name this new thing. In such cases a new word is coined or borrowed. The English language has borrowed some words from the Russian language, too. Blinis, pirozhki, bitnik, sputnik, apparatchik, troika.

I can only partially agree with you.   Sure enough  there are unchangeable borrowed words. But why should I  use the word "hotel" in each  village instead of    the word " gostinitsa"? And why do we hide a clear word " ubiytsa" behind the  attractive word "killer"?    You can find  more than one dozen such words. The air sounds with the words not understandable for the bulk of the population.

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The purity of a language is, to a certain extent, a farcical concept. English is an amalgam of many different languages, as is Russian. I doubt one can find a "pure" language on this planet (I guess one would have to go all the way back to when humans first started to communicate...). There are language isolates, certainly, but their history is often uncertain and linguistics and historians can only guess at their true origins. 

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I can only partially agree with you.   Sure enough  there are unchangeable borrowed words. But why should I  use the word "hotel" in each  village instead of    the word " gostinitsa"? And why do we hide a clear word " ubiytsa" behind the  attractive word "killer"?    You can find  more than one dozen such words. The air sounds with the words not understandable for the bulk of the population.

Whether we like it or not there is hardly ever anything to do about it. So we just have to put up with it and console ourselves with the fact that the more words the richer the language, the more oportunities for us to express our thoughts.

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The purity of a language is, to a certain extent, a farcical concept. English is an amalgam of many different languages, as is Russian. I doubt one can find a "pure" language on this planet (I guess one would have to go all the way back to when humans first started to communicate...). There are language isolates, certainly, but their history is often uncertain and linguistics and historians can only guess at their true origins. 

Right you are! But we should use borrowed words carefully and properly.

I heard a woman suggesting to have a "shkeeper" (speaker- :P ) to lead the meeting.

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Right you are! But we should use borrowed words carefully and properly.

I heard a woman suggesting to have a "shkeeper" (speaker- :P ) to lead the meeting.

I think there are two sides to this question. First, do we need new borrowings? The answer, it seems to me, is yes, when they are used to name something new. The second question is how many borrowed words do we need? Is it possible to introduce any regulations? I've heard that they try to regulate use of foreign words in France, but it is not the same. Or is it?

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The purity of a language is, to a certain extent, a farcical concept. English is an amalgam of many different languages, as is Russian. I doubt one can find a "pure" language on this planet (I guess one would have to go all the way back to when humans first started to communicate...). There are language isolates, certainly, but their history is often uncertain and linguistics and historians can only guess at their true origins. 

I agree that there are no "pure" languages. Still, we sometimes perceive some foreign words as "posh" or "uneducated". Think of the words "napkin" and "serviette" in English. Which sounds more upper-class to you? I thought that it was "serviette" as borrowed from French. But a few days ago I found a website which claims to be able to tell you how your written english sounds, and one of the choices offered by that site was the choice between a napkin and a serviette, with the subsequent commentary that serviette was more working-class. I was really surprised by this information. 

What I'm trying to say is that some borrowings cause irritation. Also, there is a generation gap between the language that teenagers use and bhe language of adults. 

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I think there are two sides to this question. First, do we need new borrowings? The answer, it seems to me, is yes, when they are used to name something new. The second question is how many borrowed words do we need? Is it possible to introduce any regulations? I've heard that they try to regulate use of foreign words in France, but it is not the same. Or is it?

I'd say when it comes to borrowings, there are two reasons at work: first, there appears something new in life and you need a word to name this new thing, so often it is easier to borrow a word from another language than try to invent a new word using your own language. Think of boulevards, opera, theatre, облигация in reference to a financial paper etc. Not surprisingly, the 20th century had two periods of huge enrichment of the Russian language - 1920-s and 1990-s, both of which coincided with huge changes in people's lives. The influx of new things and ideas lead to an influx of new words. However, since in the 1920-s it was Russia that was the originator of those new ideas, we got so many Russian-coined words like пятилетка, совхоз, наркомат and many others. In the 1990s, though, the ideas and things rushed in from abroad, hence lots of foreign borrowings including the monstrosities like авто бизнес центр групп. In the 1990-s such weird names were a sign of "being modern" and attracted clients. The second principle beyond borrowings is the economy of time. If a foreign word is shorter and easier to pronounce, then in all likelihood it will sooner or later replace the native tongue equivalent. You probably remember the notorious Admiral Shishkov who in the 19th century insisted that all borrowed words had to be replaced with Russian ones and suggested мокроступы as a replacement for галоши, хорошилище for франт and гульбище for бульвар, among other ideas. The words he suggested were much longer than the borrowed words and of course they did not work. 

Still, every language is a living being and as such has an amazing ability to heal itself. Names like "Авто бизнес центр групп" (a real name of a car dealer outside Moscow)  now sounds "so very nineties" and more and more ridiculous as if created by someone pompous who wants to sound posh but does not know the meaning of the words he tries to use. I guess what I'm trying to say is this: there is nothing bad in borrowings as long as they are used as names for new things and ideas and help to save time. And the words which do not work this way will not hold long in the language. So I really do not see much point in trying to regulate just which borrowings are allowed to be used and how often. 

A totally differemnt issue would be to teach students to use stylistically precise language in translations and in their own speech. 

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We've been having an exceptionally wet and cool summer around Moscow. Nearly every day it sprinkles, or drizzles, or there is a light shower, or a sudden downpour or even a thunderstorm. Even a clear sky does not guarantee that it is not going to rain in a couple of hours. So far I've felt that such a weather creates a nice working atmosphere for me when nothing distracts me when I look out of my window. But a couple of days ago I caught a slight cold and the weather does not seem to be so "working" after all.

What has been weather like so far this summer at your place? Is most of Russia chilly and wet or are there any warm and sunny places anywhere at all? 

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When you teach listening, do you think we should focus on materials with British/American English or should we use audiorecordings with other varieties of English? If so, for what age students should we them?

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