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One more thing that would perhaps cast some light on the difference between the Russian and "Western" rhetoric in essays without the least attempt to discriminate against any. Russians tend to philosophize while westerners are trained to draw on factual experience. Just a small example with me as the target for criticism. I was taking one of my courses in the UK and the task was to write an essay "Good fences make good neighbors". That was the time when the Berlin wall collapsed and I was very much impressed by the event. Many of us were still very much under the influence of the mass media discourse at the time and I wrote an essay trying to draw a parallel between a good fence that had been making good neighbors in Europe for fifty years without a war and the Berlin wall. The teacher later said to me that the essay was truly philosophical, but what she had in mind was giving some live examples of how good neighbors whom I might have known lived happily enjoying their privacy because they had a good fence dividing their garden. Since then I have always been telling my students to write down-to-earth ideas without losing touch with the solid ground.

:D this is the difference! It is one of my problems when writing a piece. Being philosophical I mean. And then it is difficult for me to stick to just one point. In most cases I prefer balancing ideas. Another problem is that when I try to give good examples I can't help exceedind the word limit.

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Hmm.... Valentina, the topic itself lends itself to generalities, and with a word limit of 175 - 275 words, the best one can hope for is for a competent essay written at a very general level. If the students can handle the extra writing, I would recommend increasing the word limit to 400 - 500 words. This increased word limit allows a student to supply one or two specific examples.

I thought it was just my problem not being able to fit examples into a 240-word essay.

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Russian and Western rhetoric can also be summarized in the toasting rituals, I mean raising glasses and making speeches in the situation of receiving guests from the UK or the USA. The West prefers very short cheering greetings but when the cultural setting requires a longer speech, the toasting person would perhaps recall a certain episode, or tell an anecdote (real-life story), or describe what has caught her/his eye and round off with the good old "Cheers!" or similar. Russians would fill their toast with a deep philosophical meaning of friendship forever, good-neighborly relationship of the two countries, bright future and long life for the joint international project, prosperity for the guests and certainly for dialogue of cultures and mutual understanding.Apart from ethical traditions, I wold like to emphasize abstract reasoning which is being a value in the rhetorical practices. Although pragmatism is also making its way into Russian mentality. Perhaps with the time Russian written discourse will be less abstract and more filled with practical evidence. Although cultural traditions are very stubborn and abstract reasoning will perhaps survive and remain our typical feature. Well, I have noticed that Asian rhetoric is even more philosophical. Our Indian colleagues teaching English to their students are excellent in philosophizing over a text. And our Chinese colleagues teach their students to admire the grammar symmetry of the English language. Japanese have the well known practice of meditation and put a special meaning into each word that may mean what you discover in it. In other words, let's respect traditions. But in order to pass an exam, we'd better follow the recommended academic norm that is "Western style" and this is yet another case of English going global.

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Russian and Western rhetoric can also be summarized in the toasting rituals, I mean raising glasses and making speeches in the situation of receiving guests from the UK or the USA. The West prefers very short cheering greetings but when the cultural setting requires a longer speech, the toasting person would perhaps recall a certain episode, or tell an anecdote (real-life story), or describe what has caught her/his eye and round off with the good old "Cheers!" or similar. Russians would fill their toast with a deep philosophical meaning of friendship forever, good-neighborly relationship of the two countries, bright future and long life for the joint international project, prosperity for the guests and certainly for dialogue of cultures and mutual understanding.Apart from ethical traditions, I wold like to emphasize abstract reasoning which is being a value in the rhetorical practices. Although pragmatism is also making its way into Russian mentality. Perhaps with the time Russian written discourse will be less abstract and more filled with practical evidence. Although cultural traditions are very stubborn and abstract reasoning will perhaps survive and remain our typical feature. Well, I have noticed that Asian rhetoric is even more philosophical. Our Indian colleagues teaching English to their students are excellent in philosophizing over a text. And our Chinese colleagues teach their students to admire the grammar symmetry of the English language. Japanese have the well known practice of meditation and put a special meaning into each word that may mean what you discover in it. In other words, let's respect traditions. But in order to pass an exam, we'd better follow the recommended academic norm that is "Western style" and this is yet another case of English going global.

It struck me just now that the way the Russian State Exam of English is organized (I mean the 5 papers and especially the essay) is intended to meet the academic requirements of English speaking countries. That is to say, as if all Russian students taking the exam necessarily are to STUDY in, say, America not in one of our universities.Isn't it a dubious idea? I know that to study in a linguistic university in Russia one doesnt need to be able to write a letter or an essay according to the plan imposed. And the same goes for studying in any home educational place . If one happens to wish to study abroad they will have to pass one of the exams such as CAE or TOEFL or IELTS or others depending on the country to study. Which does the RSE seek to satisfy? all at the same time? Сan it be the root of the problem?

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Jose, what do you think about the time limit? For our writing paper it is 60 min. This time is given to write a 100-word personal letter (20 min) and the above discussed essay i.e. 40! min to reflect on the topic, to organize the ideas into a short comprehensible plan, to think it over, to sketch a rough variant, to edit, to proofread again and to put it down in a legible handwriting! bearing in mind all the formalities of filling in the answer sheet. That is all. 40 min.Here you are.Time's up! Give in your papers, please!

The overall time of the exam is 160 min. Some teachers including me consider it as a kind of mental sport like chess.

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Jose, what do you think about the time limit? For our writing paper it is 60 min. This time is given to write a 100-word personal letter (20 min) and the above discussed essay i.e. 40! min to reflect on the topic, to organize the ideas into a short comprehensible plan, to think it over, to sketch a rough variant, to edit, to proofread again and to put it down in a legible handwriting! bearing in mind all the formalities of filling in the answer sheet. That is all. 40 min.Here you are.Time's up! Give in your papers, please!

The overall time of the exam is 160 min. Some teachers including me consider it as a kind of mental sport like chess.

 

I don't think that Jose is such a good expert for Russian national Exam(ЕГЭ)....We think that it's really stressful but some of the students manage it and even have very good marks... It seems very difficult to teachers but our students are able to overcome any difficulty in order to become a student.... Funny, isn't it?

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I don't think that Jose is such a good expert for Russian national Exam(ЕГЭ)....We think that it's really stressful but some of the students manage it and even have very good marks... It seems very difficult to teachers but our students are able to overcome any difficulty in order to become a student.... Funny, isn't it?

I am asking Jose because he is NOT an expert in ЕГЭ. Exactly for this reason. I'd like to get a fresh outward look. Another thing, it is interesting to compare exam and skill practices in both countries. And then, Jose is a university teacher, aren't you, Jose? :D So, he IS an expert. I'm just making use of him being so kind as to share his time to overlook the opuses posted here.

 

Yes, it is difficult for me for the reasons mentioned. Probably I am a bit more honest in admitting that, arent I? I have not seen any essays posted here apart from mine and those by Alexey. Nobody wants to show their ability to find solid arguments. I am grateful to Laddy for her concrete up-to-the-point comments. And let's ask her as being an expert in the matter of assessing actual exam papers if the percentage of 12-14-point (worth the grade!) essays is really so high as to say that it is easy.

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It struck me just now that the way the Russian State Exam of English is organized (I mean the 5 papers and especially the essay) is intended to meet the academic requirements of English speaking countries. That is to say, as if all Russian students taking the exam necessarily are to STUDY in, say, America not in one of our universities.Isn't it a dubious idea? I know that to study in a linguistic university in Russia one doesnt need to be able to write a letter or an essay according to the plan imposed. And the same goes for studying in any home educational place . If one happens to wish to study abroad they will have to pass one of the exams such as CAE or TOEFL or IELTS or others depending on the country to study. Which does the RSE seek to satisfy? all at the same time? Сan it be the root of the problem?
You are quite right. But what would FIPI specialists get their salaries for if RSE didn't differ from internationally recognized examinations?

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I am asking Jose because he is NOT an expert in ЕГЭ. Exactly for this reason. I'd like to get a fresh outward look. Another thing, it is interesting to compare exam and skill practices in both countries. And then, Jose is a university teacher, aren't you, Jose? :D So, he IS an expert. I'm just making use of him being so kind as to share his time to overlook the opuses posted here.

 

Yes, it is difficult for me for the reasons mentioned. Probably I am a bit more honest in admitting that, arent I? I have not seen any essays posted here apart from mine and those by Alexey. Nobody wants to show their ability to find solid arguments. I am grateful to Laddy for her concrete up-to-the-point comments. And let's ask her as being an expert in the matter of assessing actual exam papers if the percentage of 12-14-point (worth the grade!) essays is really so high as to say that it is easy.

It is really high.

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You are quite right. But what would FIPI specialists get their salaries for if RSE didn't differ from internationally recognized examinations?

 

sounds paradoxical :D Russia will be Russia

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It is really high.

Thanks than the problem is my mind and /or ignorance :D

Anyway, my questions to Jose are still valid.

 

PS seems that Jose has every opportunity to come to learn peculiarities of Russian intercourse ;)

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It is really high.

But it doesn't mean that the exam is easy. It only means that our students are trained enough.

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But it doesn't mean that the exam is easy. It only means that our students are trained enough.

No exam is supposed to be easy but it should be feasible. A little bit more time would not do harm.

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But it doesn't mean that the exam is easy. It only means that our students are trained enough.

The matter of drill. As they say practice makes perfect.

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I am asking Jose because he is NOT an expert in ЕГЭ. Exactly for this reason. I'd like to get a fresh outward look. Another thing, it is interesting to compare exam and skill practices in both countries. And then, Jose is a university teacher, aren't you, Jose? :D So, he IS an expert. I'm just making use of him being so kind as to share his time to overlook the opuses posted here.

 

As far as I understood Jose is teaching English to native speakers in the USA. You and I are teachers of English as a foreign Language....

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As far as I understood Jose is teaching English to native speakers in the USA. You and I are teachers of English as a foreign Language....

I am not quite sure . That is what I was going to ask him.

Jose, are you an EFL teacher or do you have different students both natives and not?

For me, it is of great importance that Jose is not only a native speaker but a much competent one at that ( remembering the talk about the chaos inherent in any language :D ) Visit his site. He explains things clearly and simply but you don't fail to notice that he is a philologist.

I haven't got such a lucky opportunity as to study or train to be a teacher abroad so far but probably in the not too distant future I'll have to. Why not get some ideas today?

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As far as I understood Jose is teaching English to native speakers in the USA. You and I are teachers of English as a foreign Language....

 

Harry, I teach English Composition at the college and university level. Some of my students are native speakers, but many are not. I love in Miami, Florida. In Miami, we have students from all over the world, but primarily from Latin America and the Caribbean. Many students here, native and non-native speakers alike, come from environments where academic formation is not stressed. Some are the first in their families to engage in any formal education beyond secondary, sometimes even primary, school. What am I implying here? I teach native and non-native speakers, but the educational level of both is not usually what one expects or desires of students attending post-secondary education.

 

Valentina saw some writings that students posted as part of their class assignements, and I think she was surprised by how poorly some of them wrote. It is a challenge to develop writing skills in 8, 12, or 16 weeks.

 

As for my being an expert!!!! Well, I consider myself, at 50 years of age, to be a perpetual student. What little I have gleaned from formal education and from teaching, I would like to share. I recognize, however, that what I know for my students may not apply to students learning English in Russia.

 

I appreciate your questions, but I would not presume to know what is "right" for developing your students' writing skills. I can speak only from my experience and training.

 

I have graded state and national exams (called the CLAST -- state of Florida -- and AP (Advanced Placement). Students are usually given a fairly general prompt, for example, "A place you would like to visit but may not appeal to others," and they are expected to write a 400 - 500 word essay in 60 minutes. Most essays I read were mediocre, with a brief, 4-5 sentence introduction, a thesis statement at the end of the introduction and 2- 4 development paragraphs with w brief conclusions. Some were horrible, with little organization, no ideas, and abysmal grammar. Some were spectacular, essays that displayed a perceptive mind, creative thinking, and full command of advanced rhetorical skills. The 60-minute time limit, while short, does allow for students to be scored. The 60-minute time limit is useful for administrative purposes, as an evaluative tool.

 

Please forgive the ramblings, but I do appreciate the opportunity to communicate with colleagues in Russia. I can only dream to visit some day.

 

Jose

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I have graded state and national exams (called the CLAST -- state of Florida -- and AP (Advanced Placement). Students are usually given a fairly general prompt, for example, "A place you would like to visit but may not appeal to others," and they are expected to write a 400 - 500 word essay in 60 minutes. Most essays I read were mediocre, with a brief, 4-5 sentence introduction, a thesis statement at the end of the introduction and 2- 4 development paragraphs with w brief conclusions. Some were horrible, with little organization, no ideas, and abysmal grammar. Some were spectacular, essays that displayed a perceptive mind, creative thinking, and full command of advanced rhetorical skills. The 60-minute time limit, while short, does allow for students to be scored. The 60-minute time limit is useful for administrative purposes, as an evaluative tool.

 

Please forgive the ramblings, but I do appreciate the opportunity to communicate with colleagues in Russia. I can only dream to visit some day.

 

Jose

Our students also have 60 minutes for the writing paper. And they are also supposed to write about 400 words but they have 2 tasks: 1) a personal letter (100-140 words) 2) an opinion composition (200-250 words). Do you think that it is more difficult?

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Harry, I teach English Composition at the college and university level. Some of my students are native speakers, but many are not. I love in Miami, Florida. In Miami, we have students from all over the world, but primarily from Latin America and the Caribbean. Many students here, native and non-native speakers alike, come from environments where academic formation is not stressed. Some are the first in their families to engage in any formal education beyond secondary, sometimes even primary, school. What am I implying here? I teach native and non-native speakers, but the educational level of both is not usually what one expects or desires of students attending post-secondary education.

 

Valentina saw some writings that students posted as part of their class assignements, and I think she was surprised by how poorly some of them wrote. It is a challenge to develop writing skills in 8, 12, or 16 weeks.

 

As for my being an expert!!!! Well, I consider myself, at 50 years of age, to be a perpetual student. What little I have gleaned from formal education and from teaching, I would like to share. I recognize, however, that what I know for my students may not apply to students learning English in Russia.

 

I appreciate your questions, but I would not presume to know what is "right" for developing your students' writing skills. I can speak only from my experience and training.

 

I have graded state and national exams (called the CLAST -- state of Florida -- and AP (Advanced Placement). Students are usually given a fairly general prompt, for example, "A place you would like to visit but may not appeal to others," and they are expected to write a 400 - 500 word essay in 60 minutes. Most essays I read were mediocre, with a brief, 4-5 sentence introduction, a thesis statement at the end of the introduction and 2- 4 development paragraphs with w brief conclusions. Some were horrible, with little organization, no ideas, and abysmal grammar. Some were spectacular, essays that displayed a perceptive mind, creative thinking, and full command of advanced rhetorical skills. The 60-minute time limit, while short, does allow for students to be scored. The 60-minute time limit is useful for administrative purposes, as an evaluative tool.

 

Please forgive the ramblings, but I do appreciate the opportunity to communicate with colleagues in Russia. I can only dream to visit some day.

 

Jose

 

Hi, Jose! I'm happy to see you in the forum. I really appreciate your efforts and what you do here and in general... I have already visited your personal site . I think it's ok... it's helpful for teachers and learners of English... Unfortunately I have so little time at the moment... I'm on leave now and I enjoy my holidays... I'm going to ask you some questions late in August when I'm back to work in Moscow...

If you want to understand the pecularities of National Exam in Russia you should be one of us. I mean you should come and teach here... There are a lot of Americans here in Russia who teach English in different English language schools... But they usually don't like the idea of teaching English in our schools...

Anyway, concerning the thread, I just want to say writing esseys in the USA and here is different.

And I hope you will visit Russia one day...

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...I appreciate your questions, but I would not presume to know what is "right" for developing your students' writing skills. I can speak only from my experience and training.

... Some were spectacular, essays that displayed a perceptive mind, creative thinking, and full command of advanced rhetorical skills. The 60-minute time limit, while short, does allow for students to be scored. The 60-minute time limit is useful for administrative purposes, as an evaluative tool...

If it is possible, Jose, can you post here an example of an essay which deserves a high grade or probably quite original and creative though somewhat grammatically awkward. And probably some background of the student . You say that some of your students "come from environments where academic formation is not stressed " or " Some are the first in their families to engage in any formal education beyond secondary, sometimes even primary, school. " :D Do any of them happen to be really capable to show solid results and achieve something in life?

And, you know, what struck me most is the way you "correct" your students' works. You are so patient, and tactful. Is it the matter of your personal nature or general teaching practice?

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Here is an essey one of my students wrote while preparing for the national exam:

”Wild animals should not be kept as pets.” Do you agree?

 

Wild animals such as chimpanzees, parrots and even pythons are wonderful to watch and have interesting personalities - but should people keep them as pets? In my opinion, it is completely wrong to keep wild animals as pets.

First of all, it's cruel to take away a wild animal's freedom. Animals such as cats and dogs usually enjoy living with humans, but wild animals don't. They need to live a natural life in their natural habitat, and they need open spaces where they can move freely.

Furthermore, keeping wild animals as pets can be unhealthy for the animals - and dangerous for their owners. Animals kept in a small house or flat can't get the exercise they need. It's also difficult to give them the same food that they eat in the wild. Also, many wild animals are dangerous and might suddenly attack their owners.

On the other hand, some people say that owners of wild animals take good care of their pets. They look after the animals, and give them love and protection. However, wild animals don't want our love and protection - they want their freedom.

All in all, I believe that wild animals should not be kept as pets, because every animal has the right to live freely in its natural

environment.

 

I have only corrected his mistakes to put it here....

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If it is possible, Jose, can you post here an example of an essay which deserves a high grade or probably quite original and creative though somewhat grammatically awkward. ...

 

Certainly.... Let me start with a very competent essay, written in class, in 60 minutes by a student who comes from the type of background I mentioned to you. She was about 26 years old when she took my class, working a full-time job, and raising a daughter by herself. The students were given the topic ahead of time and could refer only to a small index card, where they could have a general pattern of organization.

 

Topic: A cause or organization that deserves our support.

 

##################

 

Imagine watching a commercial that always made you cry. Well it has happened to me and when I watch it my convictions are so overwhelming. My heart tells me that I can make a difference to help save those innocent little lives of children dying from catastrophic diseases such as cancer. Although there are many causes and organizations

that deserve our support, the one I feel deserves our support the most is St. Jude Children’s Research Hospital.

 

To begin with, St. Jude Children’s Research Hospital is one of the premier hospitals when it comes to research in this nation. It opened in 1962, ushering a new era in pediatric research and treatment. Over the past forty six years, with singular purpose, St. Jude has led the advance in finding cures for and treating those with childhood cancers or other catastrophic diseases. Their mission- to find cures for children with catastrophic diseases through research and treatment is a constant driving force. Some of their clinical studies include Brain Tumors, Hematological Disorders, Infectious Diseases, Leukemia’s and Lymphomas, Inherited Immunodefiencies, Solid Tumors, and rare diseases. The scientists have worked along side of the doctors in trying to find these cures. At St. Jude you are never turned down because of your families’ inability to pay. They are there to help everyone that comes fight their life-threatening illness. They don’t just treat them, but they do a lot of research to help them survive.

 

Next, I would like to add that the survival rate in the present vs. 1962 has nearly tripled. This alone is a blessing. The hospital has even won a Nobel Prize for its advancement in research and finding cures. I believe that Nobel Prize was well deserved because they are so amazing. When you watch the commercial it’s almost hard not to cry. These are precious little children, and because of St. Jude’s, they have a better chance to live. These children haven’t even experienced life yet, or at least not much of it. It’s so sad to see what they’re going through. The amazing thing is that you can also see in these children their will to fight and live. They are so strong to be able to go through all the symptoms of cancer and even treatments. I give them so much credit for that.

 

My feelings and the reason I believe it’s most deserving of our support is because I have a healthy seven year old beautiful little girl, and so do many others in this country. Most of us have children. What if our children got sick with a life-threatening illness? How would we feel and where would we take them? Well, I guarantee you, it would feel devastating, and we would more than likely take them to St Jude Children’s Research Hospital. So why not invest in this organization now? I have an uncle who had Hodgkin’s disease as a child, and two aunts with Breast Cancer. Although they are fighting cancer, they’ve already lived a good portion of their lives; however these children have not.

 

In conclusion, for just 62 cents a day/ $19.00 a month we could help these innocent children’s’ chances of survival. That’s less than a can of soda a day. We could even make a one time tax-deductible donation if we’d like. I’ll tell you from doing research on this cause, I have already partnered with them. How could I not?

 

############################

 

The essay is reproduced largely as she wrote it.

 

I will follow up with an essay that is even better, and one that is not so good.

 

Thank you again for the interest!

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Our students also have 60 minutes for the writing paper. And they are also supposed to write about 400 words but they have 2 tasks: 1) a personal letter (100-140 words) 2) an opinion composition (200-250 words). Do you think that it is more difficult?

 

It really depends on the level of training, the ability of the students to compose sentences in English and to articulate those ideas in a short amount of time. Two tasks in 60 minutes, even though the amount of writing is relatively small, seems more challenging than writing only about one thing.

 

But it also depends on the purpose of the exam.

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Certainly.... Let me start with a very competent essay, written in class, in 60 minutes by a student who comes from the type of background I mentioned to you. She was about 26 years old when she took my class, working a full-time job, and raising a daughter by herself. The students were given the topic ahead of time and could refer only to a small index card, where they could have a general pattern of organization.

 

Jose, thanks a lot for the prompt reply! Sorry for my English, but I haven't gripped a couple of moments. "Ahead of time"..I guess the students got the topic to speculate on in advance , that is they had much more than an hour to come up with the whole thing, isn't it? Then, "an index card" is a card with the task, right? The young woman is not a native, isn't she?

 

....childhood cancers or other catastrophic diseases. Their mission- to find cures for children with catastrophic diseases through research and treatment is a constant driving force. Some of their clinical studies include Brain Tumors, Hematological Disorders, Infectious Diseases, Leukemia’s and Lymphomas, Inherited Immunodefiencies, Solid Tumors, and rare diseases. The scientists have worked along side of the doctors in trying to find these cures....

.....In conclusion, for just 62 cents a day/ $19.00 a month we could help these innocent children’s’ chances of survival. That’s less than a can of soda a day. We could even make a one time tax-deductible donation if we’d like. I’ll tell you from doing research on this cause, I have already partnered with them. How could I not?

 

The matter of the essay is very specific. I would not be able to write something like this without previous checking the treacherous spelling of all these medical terms :rolleyes:, and it is seen that the author is quite knowledgeable about the question which tells me she must have had enough time to write it.

 

Another question is: What are the criteria of assessment? Apart from organization, what are the other essential requirements to successful fulfilling the task?

 

One more note is the way an American essay goes. It is far more concrete in comparison with a Russian one. I guess from what you said about it that one of the requirements to a solid

essay is giving real examples, isn't it?

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